Re: Numbers Dropping?

Liberty (
Tue, 26 May 1998 22:29:09 -0400

Hi, Jennafer -

Good to meet ya, I am not sure if we ever directly spoke to one another
person to person (and, in the case of the net, screen to screen).  

At 12:24 AM 26/05/1998 +0000, jennafer waggoner wrote:

>I have to agree with Thomas, I believe that Capitalism is the cause of
>widespread modern homelessness, not the cure.

And, I suppose there was no homelessness in the Soviet Union, no poverty ...

>More jobs have never cured homelessness.  Most people who are homeless who 
>jump into jobs, basically stay homeless until they can afford rent (1st last 
>and security).  Most often, the time that they do get any money saved up
>they are promptly criminilized or mangled by how difficult it is to maintain 
>a job, while being homeless, without getting fired.  Fired for things like, 
>not having a watch or a calendar and missing important dates and times.  Not 
>being able to eat for two weeks until the first paycheck comes.  Not being 

That has nothing to do with capitalism.  That has to do with the wonderful
welfare state of ours, that acts to prohibit people from helping themselves,
so they set up all kinds of bureacratic hurdles to getting any start-up cash,
to assist them with these kinds of things.

>And why do people really believe that mainstream society has come anywhere 
>close to accepting people with 'different mental attitudes' the so-called 
>mentally ill, can even get or maintain a job to get inside?

Who is/was the "so-called" mentally ill?  Ted Turner, Kay Jamieson, Patty 
Duke, Margot Kidder, Winston Churchill, and the list goes on ... There are
more and more very successful people with long-term psychiatric disabilities
coming out of the closet about themselves.  I am long-term bipolar, yet
still operate a profitable management consulting firm, and while the stress 
is high, I still thrive ... and it is not society's accepting of me that got 
me to where I am, but my ability to recognize my own talents and abilities
... and a stubborn resistance to taking hand-outs from the state.

Yes, accommodations are needed by many people.  That is the role the state
can play, if any ... and this role is primarily an educational one, not
a long-term funding cycle. 

>Are you really saying that more jobs eliminate or relieve this
>population?  Where do you live, Libby?

I live just outside of Toronto ... And yep, I have also seen many lives
turn around with the proper kind of "hand up", not the usual hand-out and
political rhetoric the poor folks tend to get in vast abundance these days.

>The only thing that Capitalism does is keep people quiet, because if you
>act up about what you know is going on that is wrong, or take out any
>time to do something about it personally... then you get fired and end
>up homeless.  The homeless should just go out and get a job... everyone
>finally concedes. 

I was homeless because my labour leader father, who was a rising star in
the public's eye, threw me out of his house at the age of sixteen ... yeah,
these union leaders are so damn compassionate.  Today, nobody knows where
my father is ... his life conceded to the bottle ten years ago.

>And for whoever made the comment about the Anarchists posting to HPN, it
>seems funny to me that content of the messages is being ignored while
>is singling out the word Anarchist as having some negative connotation.  

The composition of anarchists I know in the GTA area are people that do not
want to live by society's rules.  They are the "tune in, drop out" crowd of 
the 1990's, the people who failed to succeed in the real world, so they wish 
to make another world that is more suitable for their lifestyle and impose 
this same lifestyle on everybody else.  I really don't mind people like
that, so long as they don't expect the rest of us to pay for their
lifestyle choices.
I am not saying all anarchists are like that, but their beliefs and
lifestyle really make very little sense to me.

>A person truly informed on Anarchist principles would not have made a
>comment that was so exclusive and condescending.  I wouldn't go around
>making fun of your belief systems or making you out to be some wingnut
>and expect you'd be happy about it.  End of rant.

My beliefs have been made fun of, ostracised, attacked, belittled and
flamed all over hell on this list, so why do I not have the right to
critique the views as expressed by others?