Fwd: Re: Why do we treat stray animals better than stray

Theodore Latham (tedrico@hotmail.com)
Sun, 17 May 1998 14:33:05 PDT

>From liberty@vaxxine.com Sun May 17 13:55:12 1998
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>Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 16:57:54 -0400
>To: "Theodore Latham" <tedrico@hotmail.com>
>From: Liberty <liberty@vaxxine.com>
>Subject: Re: Why do we treat stray animals better than stray humans?
>   (Tedrico Selected Topic)
>Cc: wmkm@dallas.net, mccarty@teleport.com, s248_1132@hotmail.com,
>        liberty@vaxxine.com, hpu@rocketmail.com, CutiePie95@aol.com,
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>At 12:21 PM 13/05/1998 PDT, techbear@no_spam.serv.net wrote:
>Hey guys, another piss-ass libertarian argument that will probably 
>some of you to make your hair curl, but come on guys, this makes sense!
>>Every human being has an intrinsic worth as a human being. That is the
>>fundamental concept of philosophies as diverse as the pro-life 
>>the peace movement, and the movement to abolish the death penalty.
>No, I view the fundamental issue is that people have a right to self-
>determination.  In the pro-life movement, I could understand why 
>would want to place a value on the life of an unborn infant, who has 
>yet been born, thus giving him or her the right to be born.  However,
>usually, the radical pro-lifers have not been around after the unborn 
>has been born, thus one can say, life begins at conception and ends at 
>I tend to support abolition of the death penalty, simply because it is 
>evenly applied.  If you are going to use a form of punishment, this 
>tool must apply to all people that commit the same crimes, not just 
>the state sees as "more deserving" as such.  This also opens the door 
>lots of other debates, such as whether somebody who committed a crime 
>the throes of "mental illness" should be convicted (i.e. I say they 
>be convicted, if it is proven they committed the crime - no special 
>should apply).  Capital punishment seems to be the tool of preference 
>poor, black males who have committed murder, presumably against a 
>officer - again, killing a cop to me, is like killing anybody else, why
>should the rules differ at all?  A murderer is a murderer is a 
murderer.  If
>capital punishment were the rule, then everybody who commits the same 
>should get the noose, per se.  Because this is not evenly applied, 
>I believe it should not apply to anybody.  At least, with life in 
>we can reverse any mistakes we might make in convicting an innocent 
>>That worth requires that we help people in need.
>The difficulty is that the term "people in need" varies so much between 
>person to person, that it has become literally meaningless as a 
>of public policy.  Because of this, it is up to each person to help who
>THEY think is most in need, not to make ME pay for helping someone who 
>may not view as being as needy as perhaps, someone else.
>>Please note well: I am not endorsing a 'free-ride' or government dole 
>>anyone who wants one. I am saying that many of the people living on 
>Of course, you are.  "People in need", which according to liberal left,
>includes anybody that does not have the capacity to purchase for 
>everything they want, let alone everything they need.  But, then again, 
>who has been there, do not want the government to tell ME what I need, 
>instead of allowing me to determine this for myself.
>>streets just need the opportunity to get back on track;
>Definitely, a hand-up, as opposed to a hand-out, is better anyday.
>>many more need a place because they are simply unable to care for
>As determined by whom?  You?  The homeless advocates?  A psychiatrist?  
>When we start making a distinction between those who are "unable to 
>for themselves", and "those are able to care for themselves but are 
>on the streets as an alternative lifestyle", one needs to ask 
>who is going to make this determination?  Who is going to determine 
>Jack, is just a moocher, while John, for example, is somebody that 
>care for himself.  It would appear by the context in which this is 
>that it would be somebody other than Jack or John, who would make this
>determination, and yes - this is exactly what people with mental health
>problems can do WITHOUT - somebody else making this decision for them!  
>even when it is found, by whoever's Holy water, that this person indeed 
>cannot care for themselves, who are WE to impose our own solutions on 
>>Why do we treat stray animals better than we treat stray humans?
>The last I heard is that most stray animals are herded to the humane 
>societies, and if not "claimed" by anybody within a certain number of 
>these animals are sold for adoption (ownership) or euthanized after a 
>period of time.  Is that really better than how we treat "stray 
>Should we start selling "stray humans" for adoption by new pet owners?  
>any of us want to be "owned" by anyone?  Or threatened with 
>if we refuse to be enslaved by someone else?  Come on, guys, this 
>does not hold water, and you know it ;-)
>Liberty (Lillian)
>- liberty@vaxxine.com

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