Fw: Does Anti-Authoritarian Ignorance Condone Murder/Rape?

Flower Child (nternet@c2i2.com)
Sat, 16 May 1998 07:14:04 -0700

meaningful message to come across AGR (or HPN) since I've been subscribed.
This post is worthy of study by those of us who claim to value life and
think we are or can be influencial in the course of our societal lives.  If
we want to solve the problems we have been concerned with, the case is made
in Sandi Brockway's post that there is this central, root absolute sickness,
which needs to be recipient to healing as a primary focus of ours.  The
efforts and finances of our nation and its war machine need to be redirected
at this problem of violence against women and violence against anyone

I must tell Ms. Brockway that I am not aware of any condoning of murder or
rape within these two newsgroups.  There is often half-awake psycho-babble,
which I'll believe is somewhat more awake after reading your message right
now.  It is NOT O.K. for men (or women, but rarely the case) to be sexually
violent predators.  It is NOT O.K. for violence to be perpetrated or
sancioned officially or unofficially.  It IS O.K. for representatives of
society to protect that society.  What to do with the isolated, detained
violators needs a whole lot of work and the wherewithall to implement.  This
is a worthy goal for the 21st century.  The violators also need to be
isolated from each other during their separation from society and not go
into a giant pressure cooker barely under containment, as is now the case,
recruiting all who enter to the lowest base sickness, guards and prisioners
alike.  Our nation and world is male dominated and this needs to be
corrected, no if, ands, or buts.  All the violence, official and individual,
must be ended.  Patterns of corrupt partiarchy must come to their end.
We've got to fight the guns, the fact that our nation is the leading
supplier of these armaments, and we've got to remove the glory from
dominance, power, and greed.  Individuals need to be strengthened not to do
evil actions or evil production; indeed, everyone needs to be encouraged
that it is better to be in a soup kitchen line that in an apartment paid for
with funds from evil doing.  I will try never to forget these things and
pledge the rest of my life to be concerned with them.  Our homeless
solutions and happy Rainbow style gatherings will fall naturally into place
when the underlying roots of the sickness on earth is faced and
energetically dealt with !!  Flower Child  (Charles Wilson)

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandi Brockway <brockway@spork.callamer.com>
Newsgroups: alt.gathering.rainbow
To: gathering@cygnus.com <gathering@cygnus.com>
Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 11:09 PM
Subject: Does Anti-Authoritarian Ignorance Condone Murder/Rape?

>Dear Rainbows:
>I was very disturbed when the anonymous kindness and consideration of
>a police official was ridiculed and chastised by Rainbows here --
>while the larger issue of VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN completely discarded.
>Separate posts from Wandering Bear and James A.-- that I quote at the
>bottom -- I feel were remarkably disturbing, dumb, rude, and
>appalling. In the case of James -- juvenile, pseudo-intellectual
>psycho-babble that means NOTHING. I am not impressed. Does
>anti-authoritarian ignorance and arrogance condone rape and murder
>These psychopathic killers and rapists cannot generally be healed, as
>WB suggests otherwise. Most are permanently, even physiologically,
>damaged. Sorry to "bum you out." If I hear you correctly -- you
>believe it's okay and natural for a man to be a SEXUALLY VIOLENT
>PREDATOR -- but it is not okay for the authorities or society to want
>to banish or imprison him. And... because women and children have no
>real inherent value we should let their killers and sexual predators
>roam the streets until we have a better solution -- because boys will
>be boys and that is natural?
>As it is, the legal system does little to protect women and children.
>It is precisely THIS JOB that we DO want the authorities to engage.
>Feminist fought many long decades to get the VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN
>ACT enacted. Not only has this male-dominated system been blind to
>violence against women and other related gender violence, extreme
>anti-authoritarian, anarcho, or libertarian notions such as yours --
>that give license to violent and misogynist conduct, and even murder
>-- are intolerable and only support the dominant male culture --
>promoting the belief that violence against women is natural and
>I am all for releasing non-violent drug abusers and political
>prisoners from jail NOW and focussing more on incarcerating the
>psychopathic violent ones -- and addressing the issue of male
>socialization HEAD-ON. Men, I think, make up 95% of the prison
>populations -- and perpetrate NEARLY ALL the violent crimes on this
>planet. Their disregard for life and hatred of women is learned and
>conditioned by a corrupt patriarchy.
>Humans are innately very affectional and social creatures. It is
>through millineums of patriarchal wars, domination, and perversion
>that humans have become the fearful and neurotic creatures we are. The
>very day that man took the tools for killing beast to each other is
>the very day we turned against our own true tender natures -- and ever
>since, the most noble of us have been on a quest to reclaim our lost
>virtues through myth, romance, religion, art, and literature.
>Unfortunately many of those paths have proved to be deadends or only
>furthering the causes of dominator thinking.
>We are ALL guilty -- and if you want to understand why, read on. "Evil
>happens when enough good people do nothing" -- or are willfully
>There is NO humane way at this time to incarcerate violent criminals
>but to isolate them. You cannot have a community of violent men and it
>be humane. They would perpetrate on each other no matter how we tried
>to stop it. Even ancient tribal societies dealt with the psychopath
>through banishment -- and banishment usually meant death to most. The
>community could not survive the damages that a highly dysfunctional
>member would cause. Our system is WORKABLE -- it just has to be
>transformed and revised. Citizens have to use it and fight for it.
>This is the police alert you all would apparently trivialize:
>http://www.fdle.state.fl.us (for photos)
>On April 26, 1998, Joseph L. Geibel sexually Assaulted a forty
>(40)-year old white female Key West Tourist, who was very intoxicated.
>The body was dumped near a dumpster behind a store a block from the
>crime scene. GEIBEL was often drunk and seen playing a single bongo
>drum on the streets of Key West. GEIBEL often hung out with other
>drunken street people. GEIBEL has also been known to befriend young
>female runaways and support them for sexual favors. GEIBEL was last
>seen in Key West on April 27, 1998. GEIBEL had been in Key West for
>about six months and had recently come from Arizona. GEIBEL has past
>addresses in Texas, Washington and Michigan. GEIBEL is from Michigan
>where he served prison time for sexual assaults.
>  Suspect Description:
>  DOB:
>                   May 6, 1943
>  Sex:
>                   Male
>  Race:
>                   White
>  Aliases:
>                   William N. Kirby
>                   Larry L. Harford
>                   Richard J. Glaze
>                   David Stinson
>                   Joe Robinson
>                   Richard Allen
>                   John Miller
>Apparently a law officer anonymously tried to post this alert to our
>Rainbow newsgroup. He was doing his job. He was trying to warn
>Rainbows that their females were possibly at risk. To this, he has
>been maligned and chastised. Geibel would not be the only SEXUALLY
>VIOLENT PREDATOR to prey on Rainbow women or girls. I reported another
>one who had been circulating habitually with the Rainbows for at least
>3 years, Martin J. Worley, aka Doc, Paco, Martin J. Cook --
>http://www.macronet.org/martin/ [photos].
>He is now thankfully incarcerated -- but when he gets out he plans to
>run with us Rainbows again. We are looking for other women who were
>abused by him. He is a trained woman killer -- though we have no proof
>yethe has killed a woman. We are still investigating. He keeps his
>women imprisoned and sexually compliant through battery and guns. He
>is a former drug dealer and self-styled vigilante. He appears to be as
>sweet, harmless, and Rainbow as the rest of you. He did body piercing,
>has Native American tattoos, and claimed to play with Spyra Gyro once.
>Guaranteed everything he says is a seductive lie. He now faces charges
>from five people -- two are minors. All are of a violent and sexual
>nature. Do you want to tell your women and children that it is okay
>for him to violate them? Can you look into your children's or women's
>eyes and say that they must be a necessary casualty or death sacrifice
>for this man's freedom? Can you care so little?
>I am looking for a Rainbow named Eric from Santa Cruz, who possiby
>saved a woman's life -- from a battering recieved by Martin J. Worley
>in Mendocino. We all want to thank him and hear his story. We are
>looking for a Rainbow from Arkansas named Seraphina Bliss and her son,
>Luke, who spent perhaps 5 months with Martin -- and was possibly a
>victim. She needs to know he has been incarcerated, in case she went
>into hiding. Her old address is no longer valid.
>Sexual predators who kill our females and sexually abuse and kill our
>children are not natural. They are trained from years of childhood
>abuse usually at the hands of a father -- many times sexual -- forced
>sodomy and oral rape. That was true of my perpetrator. This is the
>Cycle of Abuse that must be BROKEN. It is what we inherited from our
>PATRIARCHAL FOREFATHERS. It is the eroticization of POWER and CONTROL
>that is the result of imbalance and MALE DOMINATION. It is the sexual
>blood lust of the wars and the soldiers. My perpetrator beat me
>repeatedly, raped me twice, and held me captive for 18 hours.
>Thankfully he was picked up on parole violations concerning mail fraud
>-- and the five cases facing him will be tried and more easily
>considered. Due to three women's statements to the judge, he got a
>maximum of 2 years for parole violations. That gives us time to build
>Yes, we have looked for alternatives, but the perpetrator's
>cooperation, honesty, and genuine remorse would be necessary. The best
>we can do is make sure that a psychiatric evaluation is done and he
>gets in-patient care.
>Last night I was channel surfing and the only things I found of
>interest ended up being the following:
>PrimeTime -- The story of Heather Rich. A very sweet -- and infinitely
>loved by both her parents -- sixteen year old girl. If you could have
>seen the tears in her father's eyes. She befriended three boys who she
>believed to be her friends and "nice boys." Eventually the three
>conspired to -- and did -- rape and kill her. The band leader called
>himself a "soldier" when the journalist pointed out to him he did not
>cry or look genuine in his remorse. The boys, I believe, were also
>sixteen. I could not help it think of my perpetrator when the
>"soldier" boy, son of a Viet Nam vet, talked. He had that same skill.
>I immediately thought of Martin's dad. The other boys were pulled into
>"soldier boy's" fantasy who always wanted to rape a girl and blow her
>head away. DEAD MAN WALKING? They are being tried as adults. One boy
>finally broke down to tell the WHOLE truth concerning the incident --
>as well as renouncing drugs and alcohol. He felt the parents deserved
>that much. He sacrificed his plea bargain which might have meant his
>life. The parents are trying to forgive because they have found it
>unbearable to live with hate in their hearts. Forgive does NOT mean
>letting him out of jail.
>Next: background and story on the Framington Nine. Nine women doing 20
>to life for killing their mates, mates who terrorized and injured them
>for years. One women talked about how she got the claw of a hammer in
>her face when she tried to divorce her husband -- he broke through her
>door after she had nailed it shut. She had tried to press charges
>before but he threatened to kill her and the law could not give her
>enough protection. Her friend, a man, is doing life for having done
>the act. I sure hope he has a support group. She is doing time for
>having conspired. The man-friend and his friend only meant to rough
>him up, but got carried away and too angry and killed the evil,
>violent pathetic scum. Ever see SLING BLADE? These women in a MA jail
>formed a group or lobby to petition the state concerning their
>legitimate right to self-defense and "battered women's syndrome"
>defense. Why is hatred against women like this not taken seriously?
>Why is teaching hatred against females acceptable?
>Then there were the girls shot on the playground by those group of
>boys recently. In San Luis Obisbo County there was the girl killed at
>Cal Poly by a boy who never got pulled in, but they KNOW he did it. Or
>the three boys here, also, who did a Satanic ritual and slashed up and
>killed a 14 year old girl. The girl thought, again, the boys were her
>nice FRIENDS.
>I hope this is a new media trend, violence against females, now that
>Oprah was so successful with the Domestic Violence show a couple of
>weeks ago. Why must our enemies be our men? The same men who are
>suppose to "protect" and nurture us?
>I thought about the boy who beat up Monica, the seven year old
>daughter of a friend, and ironically the daughter of my perpetrator,
>Martin J. Worley. The seven year old boy decked her, kicked her, and
>broke her nose -- and  goes around the school calling girls "bitches"
>and "whores." He is being trained to be a killer by his father. His
>mother is too impotent and diminished to do anything. Monica went
>through years of watching her mother be beat and held by gun point and
>verbally abused. Will Monica grow up to think it is acceptable? Anger
>is a very important element of overcoming abuse.
>Martin was once an innocent, sweet, intelligent and sensitive little
>boy once. It breaks my heart. I feel like I have had a broken heart my
>whole life -- ever since those two boys harrassed, threatened, and
>degraded me on the nursery school playground when I was three. When I
>hear stories about Heather Rich or women getting life for self-defense
>-- I remember that. I remember that boys are trained to hate and
>objectify girls with no compassion -- target them with no more thought
>than the KKK targets a black person.
>I also get angry -- that in our current 28 years of feminism that men,
>in general, really have not got the message. Men do not want to be
>questioned or made accountable for their lies, violence, psychosis,
>greed or vanity. We have to stop this madness. The world has to be
>safe for our little girls -- and boys. Violence against women and
>children must stop. The so-called "civil rights" and "privacy rights"
>that stop us from doing anything -- that only further protect men must
>come to an end. Violence against children and women is not an
>"acceptable" casualty for a male value system that is -- not heroic or
>glorious -- but corrupt. When so-called "progress" is at the cost of
>humanity, it is NOT acceptable. Period.
>Then there is the gun fanatics -- who, for the most part want to
>protect their rights to abuse their mates and children and promote
>racial hatred and intolerance as they please -- and not have the
>government or community tell them what to do. Yet, they generally want
>to deny women's right to CHOICE.
>Some of you here have validated the Branch Davidians who used guns and
>supported a man who, by force and indoctrination, sexually coerced and
>abused children and women -- who believed he was God. How can this be?
>This is not to say I agree with how the US handled the volatile
>situation. If you want the real stories read COVERT ACTION QUARTERLY
>and testimonies of former cult members. America is becoming one of the
>most uncivilized and ethically corrupt nations on the planet -- yet we
>have had all the opportunity to become a truly egalitarian nation. Our
>criminal laws that protect the criminal and do not protect victims is
>another sign. People deserve the government they get.
>I am not talking about women who arm themselves -- they do that
>precisely because the men are so VIOLENT and have guns. The male
>criminal element is being allowed to take over the streets. Why? To
>protect a patriarchal value system that is corrupt -- to protect "male
>privilege" and mythology. They build more prisons. Why? Because the
>violence and perversion in men is growing daily and they do not want
>to deal with the root of the problem. They do not want to question
>male socialization. Why? Because they want to beleive they are
>perfect. They do not want to give up their percieved privileges and
>their rights to create hatred, wars and abuse women and children. They
>want to continue to perpetuate their ethics of exploitation, greed and
>vanity -- all that will benefit the Godhead of Patriarchy and the male
>ego state.
>They build more prisons to hide their shame. They condone and glorify
>guns, because they know it is only going to get worse and they want to
>further force their agenda. They promote pornography, sexploitation
>and misogyny, only because women and children must pay and be
>sacrificed for the indulgences of male egos and addictions -- the male
>delusion of self worth at the expense of another. Sexism is the first
>"ism." This is an absolute. Now that women are not willing to "stay in
>their place" or "keep their mouth shut" within this last 28 years it
>is getting worse. Pornography, rape, violence and guns is just another
>male way to subjugate and dominate and promote their value system --
>and indulge their erotic fantasies of power, dominance, and glory. How
>can we expect compassion from a socialization based on complete
>It is a malignant, contagious, and serious social disease. Rush
>Limbaugh calls feminists "Feme-Nazis" -- and he has a following of
>many, many millions -- and is a de-facto spokesman for the male
>dominant paradigm. They love him because he promotes the traditional
>male ethic of greed and territoriality.
>I do not believe humans are naturally predators or that the cops
>should be brutally criticized for trying to warn others about female
>killers. This is tragically and disgustingly pathetic. Fascism comes
>in many colors and wears many masks. I am surprised to find it here.
>Wandering Bear said:
>When I talk of "mending the Hoop" it is only a term for lack of better
>words.Not ment as a religous beleif(sence Im not Native American) but
>as a discription of the whole of human kind. I dont object to
>christian values ,except for those christian values that forceably
>object to mine.(Such as thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.)
>As a matter of fact I find many christain beleifs of great value.
>You said that The Sacred Hoop will not be healed by letting rapists
>and serial killers walk free. Neather will punishing them or taking
>their lives of freedom away from them.This only contineues the
>cycle.That why we need to find another way of dealing with the
>You had also questioned wheather or not these people can be healed.
>We should at least try to heal them and if they cant be healed we
>should at least put them in a Humane situation (NOT PRISON) where they
>can live the rest of their lives comfortablely as possible where they
>can do no harm.
>We are all born as preditors.It is the instinct that nature gave us
>for our survival.Some people are just born with this instinct stronger
>then others.It is not their fault for the way they are born.
>Should a wolf be killed or imprisoned just because it is born a
>preditor. Of couse not.
>Its not a mater of faith or beleif its just a fact of nature.Genetics
>predestins most of our lives.
>A person should not be punished or imprisoned for for what they are
>born as. The fact is these are still human beings no diffrent than any
>one else.
>Im not in any way sugjesting though that the sheep try to befriend the
>wolf.Only a stupid sheep does that.
>In a message dated 98-05-12 22:56:51 EDT, you write:
>> Subj: Re: right from/wrong wrong wrong
>>  Date: 98-05-12 22:56:51 EDT
>>  From: sanity@primary.net (Sanity Clause)
>>  To: JamesA@aol.com (JamesA)
>>  I did the best I knew how with what I had to work with at the time,
>>  an illiterate posting from a public officer who wished to remain
>>  saying he was looking for a 55 year old man who "comes off as
>> nbsp;
>>  I was, and still am outraged at this conduct, as it brought the spirit
>>  of fear to the folks peaceably assembled in cyber space, as voiced by
>> That it turned out there was an actual investigation under way does
>>  not excuse the sergeant sergeant's rank incompetence, or the fact that
>>  he was trying to do anonymously that which had need of public
>>  from a verified source.&nbsp; Neither am I obligated to investigate the
>>  verity of patently illiterate postings, and neither are you empowered or
>>  authorized to encumber me with such an onus!
>> As a third party, you have no jurisdiction to judge the brouhaha, if
>>  indeed one even exists.&nbsp; I believe it is sociologically and morally
>>  incorrect for you, for all I know unbidden and unauthorized, to exhibit
>>  such hubris.&nbsp; I have had no complaint concerning my action from the
>>  only party competent to complain, viz., the&nbsp; sergeant sergeant
>>  or his authorized agent.&nbsp; Neither have I any information or other
>>  reason to believe the sergeant sergeant himself has indeed taken offense
>>  at my initial displeasure, he is after all sworn to uphold free speech.
>>  [Still I do hope he has learned from his misconduct so as not to repeat
>>  it.......]
>> Therefore: take your guilt trip, etymological sources
>>  and all, run a hard copy off, fold the same until it is all corners, and
>>  stuff it someplace eternally dark.
>> Tough Love,
>> Sanity