Re: proposal defense meeting 12-1

Liberty (
Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:41:59 -0500


At 09:06 AM 01/12/97 -0500, Bruce D. Burleson wrote:

>> How do YOU know what I do is not as socially valuable?  I create jobs for
>> people.  Through my work with other businesses, I help preserve and create
>> even more jobs for people.  Without people working, a society has a very
>> sad, depressing, gloomy future.  Without people working, nobody will have
>> the kind of money that is needed to give to government in taxes or to
>> donate to private foundations, such as the foundation that may provide
>> support to Tom's list.
>This is the typical capitalist or small-capitalist argument.  "I
>create jobs for people."  
>However, the capitalist depends on the workers in order to make a
>profit, no?  Has anyone ever run a firm or factory or office by
>themself, and gotten very far?

True, we do depend on workers - but the difficulty with the workers'
movement is they price themselves out of the market, and have caused
many businesses to close or lay many workers off, shortly after the
union has won major concessions.  It must be remembered that even if
the union people get these concessions, it does not always follow that
the factory or employer is making more money to offset the increase
in their costs.  This is something that unions understand very poorly,
the effects of economics and political realities.

>So without working people, capitalism STOPS.  Therein lies the strength
>of the socialist argument.

That's why socialism was voted out in most places where it has existed,
and traditionally left-of-centre parties have been forced to move to 
the centre, or even veering to the right in order to stay or return to
power - e.g. Tony Blair, of the Labour Party in UK is a fine example.

>I will restate what I said before.  Workers work because under this
>system they HAVE to in order to survive.  And the work they do is
>often menial, repetitive and unfulfilling.

Every job has its good points and bad points, but please keep in mind
that autoworkers, who make in excess of $28/hour (plus full benefits) 
to screw a nut and a bolt together, make much more than many people with 
Masters' Degrees and even PHds, as well as many small business owners, 
so I really don't see what they're griping about.