[Hpn] Re: Homelessness as choice

Bill Clift newfree@isni.net
Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:16:11 -0500

Hi Paul -

Your e-mail has me saying,  "There but for the grace of God go I."

I am 66 years old,  and,  if I hadn't gone to prison,  I,  too,  might
be unemployed and broke.  I went to prison to finish out my ten
years for a State of Florida  retirement program,  but I disaggreed
with Dept. of Corrections policies (esp. re drug offenses) and so
quit ASAP.  Before that,  my choices were mainly bagging groceries
or driving a taxi,  even though I have an MS in psychology.

Since you obviously have access to a computer,  will you consider
looking at my Website,  reading what it says re alternatives to
civililzed addictions,  and then giving me some feedback?

Or better yet,  join the e-mail discussion list and provide some
first-hand perspective.

I think there are ways to have satisfying lives,  not hurt others or
the global environment,  and only be part of those aspects of
civilization that we personally want to be part of.

I wish you the best and hope to hear from you.

Bill Clift

Save yourself,  save the world,  and enjoy it.  A practical and
spiritual program.              Large, free preview section online.
newfree@isni.net                       http://www.altciv.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Pitt <pjpitt@mindspring.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Hpn] Re: Homelessness as choice

> Matt Parkhouse
> I made no such choice... and many like me made no such choice ... society
> just had not use for us.   If you have white hair you are not needed ..AND
> So put you money where your mouth is: help me find work.
> I am not asking for money.  I do not want a loan.  I want a job.  I don't
> want to beg, but I am begging. Please help me.
> I am not perfect.  I am mature and most people think "he ought to be
> and living on his savings."  Well, maybe I should,  but the 1990's
> took my job, my savings and my house.  It took my job: Orange County
> government went bankrupt (because of the recession) and I was layed off!
> could not afford to keep my house, so when the savings ran out my house
> sold to pay the loan.    I had temporary employment during Y2K and then
> ended.
> I wish to God I was not 60 years old.  I wish to God that I was well
> connected in business.  I wish to God that I had some special advantage.
> But I do not.  A good many of my friends either moved on or passed on.  I
> was not at the top of the heap when it crashed.
> I have done good things in my past.
> * I am a hard worker.  [ I was never late, did not take time sick, and I
> more than my share]
> * I have a good education (master's).   (B.S. Liberal arts, M.A., public
> administration)
> * I am not and  have never been a drinker.
> * I don't smoke or use drugs.  (I quit smoking in 1974)
> * I am in good health.
> * I am honest.  [I have never stolen anything ever] [I cannot lie, I get
> caught when I try it]
> * I have no criminal record. [I have not had a traffic ticket in over ten
> years].
> * I have references.  [there are people who will attest to my work ]
> * I have technical skills.  [I programmed and managed computers for 20
> years]
> * I have business skills and business education.   [I have a paralegal
> certificate and R.E. Broker's license] [I have made a lot of money for
> others, none for myself]
> * I have more than 4,000 classroom hours of in-service training.  [that is
> at least another degree or two]
> * I have accomplishments in business and in government [I stopped crime on
> one community, reduced government costs in three others, got awards for
> helping more than 1/3rd of the cities and counties in Illinois]
> * I was married once and raise two kids [now none of them want to know me]
> * I am a member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars and I served in the Navy
> * I learned to fly in the 1970's and mastered instrument flying as well
> * I sailed across the Atlantic to deliver a boat in 1999, and that is a
> Everest for being over 50
> .. but all of that doesn't count for much, . I have been UNEMPLOYED for
> a year.  Hard core unemployed. I am only a step away from holding one of
> those "will work for food" signs on a freeway ramp.  I am out of  money,
> have no friends, and no resources.  The unemployment office says "keep
> looking, something will happen." The VFW cannot help.   The Vietnam
> gave me an aptitude test,. but since I am not addicted I do not fit the
> there.
> Don't just sit and throw stones... help out (or else shut up).
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <HOBOMATT@aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 8:10 AM
> Subject: [Hpn] Re: Homelessness as choice
> >
> > << And the truth is that the homeless, to a very large degree, simply do
> >  not want to reenter mainstream society.
> >                                         <<snip>>
> > The problem is the other two-
> >  thirds, and honestly I believe the figure is much higher than two-
> >  thirds, who do not want to get a nine-to-five job, and they do not want
> >  the burden of paying rent and utilities." >>
> >
> > I would agree with this premise of Ted Hayes' that there are those who
> would
> > chose to live "outside of our mainstream society". I storngly disagree
> that
> > they are the majority of the homeless population. Here in Colorado
> Springs,
> > my best estimate, based on regular interaction with homeless people in
> > city, is that 10 to 20 percent fit into that catagory. Even at those
> > percentages however, I do agree with Mr. Hayes' position that the funded
> > helping agencies do not like to even acknowledge the existance of these
> > individuals. They certainly do not fit the "poor, helpless victim" they
> like
> > to portray the clientele they serve (especially at this holiday
> fund-raising
> > season).
> > Even within this small percentage, there are variations; ranging from
> > socialized gentlemen who harken to the hobos of old - clean camps,
> > lifestyle and no criminal behavior (other than squatting on someone's
> vacant
> > land), to rather preditory groups of people who would rip off anyone,
> > "citizen" to fellow homeless person, for a pack of smokes. If we accept
> that
> > there ARE such groups among the homeless, what is our response to them?
> > Personally, my values are that people who "chose the lifestyle" fall
> the
> > same sort of catagory as Punks, Goths, outlaw bikers or Dead-heads. As a
> > member of society, what do I owe such people? I believe that society
> > folks who opt out of the mainstream very little. We do, however, owe
> > people avenues of escape if and when they do wish to "return to the
> > Sort of like the attutude of a AA group several of my friends belong to:
> "If
> > you want to drink and drug, that's your business. If you want to stop,
> it's
> > ours' ". The "helping vs enabling" issue is a tough one. It's too bad
> > agencies tend to shy away from such discussion.
> > Matt Parkhouse, RN;
> > Colorado Springs, CO
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >